S1E5:  Nonprofit CRM Transformation with Vinny Ciccio

[0:00:00]

We  came in towards the end, so we were for better or for worse, we were full speed ahead the entire time. So we knew that we had to act quickly, act swiftly, but also act thoughtfully. I looped in as many great resources as I could on my end, but leveraged my manager of like, hey, who's done really well in the nonprofit space, who's an expert, who's overly technical and who's going to deliver. Right. I wanted to make sure that we had a partner that could match the speed and the expertise and the technical know how that we needed to.

[0:00:28]

Welcome to the Domin8 podcast where we sit down with hubspotters to unpack their biggest wins. The curve balls they had to overcome the sales strategies that brought the deal home. I'm Stephen Sabren, senior partnership manager at Aptitude8, the world's leading technical HubSpot consulting firm. Today I'm joined by Vinny Ciccio, an account executive at HubSpot. Vinny has over a decade of sales experience and helped close one of the larger foundations in the U.S. Vinny, pumped out of here, man. Thanks for joining me. Really looking forward to our conversation.

[0:01:00]

Stephen, thanks a ton. Obviously I want to say thank you to you, Aptitude 8. You guys have been phenomenal. Really appreciate you having me on here today and excited to talk through some deals and some sales strategies here. This would be great.

[0:01:13]

Absolutely. Let's get started with a little background. So first, personal background for yourself. How did you find your way into the HubSpot ecosystem? And along those lines, if you had to sum up your sales philosophy, what, what would that be?

[0:01:28]

Yeah. So , HubSpot  has become a pretty well known household name at this point. I could definitely say I worked on it. Worked for one of the bigger competitors on the dark side and  came up against HubSpot quite a bit. And you have all the great foundations and the great services that HubSpot had to offer. So I really wanted to dip my toe in and it's been an amazing experience so far. Obviously getting to work with partners like you as the two is no doubt the best. So that's been fantastic. And I think you guys also just go along the lines of my sales philosophy too. I think the biggest thing is, , for me and what's been most successful for me is just being a genuine person, being consultative, being a good listener. I think if you could at least have some of those pillars that's really going to take those conversations and earn that trust a lot easier and make that relationship a lot stronger. I'M really big on just being a good listener, being a genuine person and letting some of the chips fall where they may.

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more. What is it about selling in the HubSpot ecosystem that you find especially rewarding?

[0:02:29]

There's a few different portions of it. I think at the end of the day we're helping businesses, regardless of the size, small, medium, enterprise level, have a positive impact on what they're doing. Typically when we  talk to customers for the first time, they're using a bunch of different scattered things. They've got teams in different silos, not talking to each other. So being able to work at a place like HubSpot that we could possibly impact and make people's day to day jobs and their lives easier is definitely one of the most rewarding things for me. Working at HubSpot for sure. Awesome.

[0:03:00]

Pulling away and getting into the deal that we're going to talk about today. So let's talk about a little bit about the foundation nonprofit org. How did this one land in your lap? What were the early signs? How did it enter the pipeline essentially?

[0:03:14]

Yeah, it's funny that you say it fell into my lap because  you have those ones that you can go out and reprospect and you do a lot of digging for it. This one we'll get into it, I'm sure. But they  reached out and wanted some more information and fortunately we had the right person that was interested. Right. It was our new head of technology and  doing my due diligence and this was started. Where some of the legwork started was that some of the LinkedIn stuff noticed, like I said, that he just got started. He's the head of technology. One big lever for me though too is that we also used to work together at the same employer. Right. And that was who we went up against in this particular project. So I got to pull a couple of different strings that got the initial call going and got him to open up a little bit more. But they reached out. They're on the back end of their evaluation of looking for new technology. They were looking for new Customer Relationship Management (CRM) and new marketing tools for the foundation. It was a really big shakeup for them. We were at the tail end. We were just, hey, let's check the box. We evaluate HubSpot and maybe evaluate some other tools. Just to say we did. But we felt really good about our initial option after our initial conversation and I think I was able to leverage some of the talking points that he said. Some of our work history together too. And like I mentioned, just really being a good listener and playing back some of the stuff that I think HubSpot really lent itself really well for. So it was a really great initial conversation. But then you folks, like you guys that have to do today would really be extremely valuable in helping bring this home.

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Were there any skeptics or blockers that you came across? How did we overcome that?

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Yeah, I think some of the bigger obstacles were us just being late to the party. I met with them for the first time. They're like, hey, we're on the, we're on the 10 yard line with the other big competitor here. And like I said, we're just trying to do our due diligence. So I think that was the big thing of like, how do we earn their trust, earn the credibility, do all those things prove all that value when they're pretty much right at the goal line? So I think again, it was that good initial call leveraging you, leveraging the internal teams at HubSpot, our solutions, engineers and our architects to really drive home a lot of the value and give them ultimately the confidence they needed to move forward. With us. It was a really great team win. But yeah, we were definitely really late to the party on this one and no one really, no one really had any experience with HubSpot. It was good. It was really challenging but fulfilling.

[0:05:29]

Win from what I gathered. There were a lot of moving parts, right? Custom objects, there was multi Persona Customer Relationship Management (CRM) design. There was a lot of Customer Relationship Management (CRM), to your point, tech evaluation fatigue because we got into the game a little bit early. What stood out as their core pain when they came to you?

[0:05:49]

The other big piece of this too is like they were just using a bunch of different tools and systems. This new head of technology came in, he had a background of working with other foundations too. So I'm sure he had this playbook of how he liked to do things. In any case, it's, hey, how do we get more folks onto one platform? How do we get the marketing team, the quote unquote sales team, the service folks, the operational folks? How do we get all them using one platform to help make good decisions and ultimately give their audience the relevant information at the right time? So I think that's one of the bigger pieces of it too, of like, how do we bring everything into one.

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Place with all of the various components and teams involved? How did you approach the evaluation with all of those various teams and involving them in the process?

[0:06:38]

That's a good question because I Think that's something that also helped us separate from the other big competitor. I mean, it's not like it's Voldemort. We could say who it is. It's Salesforce. Right. And the big thing with them was, in at least what we gathered was they were trying to  put this foundation into a particular box and have them evaluate their platform their certain way. So to answer your question, like, we were able to do this very quickly and be very nimble with it. Like I said, we were. They were really close to finishing things up. They were talking for over a quarter. We were able to essentially gather all their information, meet with the appropriate teams, and in a week, and in a week and a half period of time, and essentially playback. Here's our recommendation. We didn't need to do this overly long deep dive and charge for services and all these different things like that. We were able just to provide value and expertise in a really quick and effective way. I think that's just something that ultimately went a long way in building our credibility and our value. And the HubSpot platform speaks for itself too, where we truly are an all one platform. And at the time, I had a great manager who said something I'll never forget, but said this to the customer where it's like, hey, a couple years ago, guys, transparently, these are some of the things that we couldn't do that Salesforce had a leg up on us due to,  all the investments made and all the time and effort put into our platform. Customer feedback. We've made some of these changes and that's something that I, , I feel like I play back a lot on a regular basis when I'm having conversations with anyone where it's like, hey, yes, we're this. Maybe this bigger platform could do a lot of things now, but we always weren't this. We didn't have these capabilities and we listened to our customers. We invest a lot of resources into our product to really be true all in one system and platform. So I think tying in a few of those different factors and some of those capabilities is really what helped us, like I said, earn that credibility pretty quickly.

[0:08:29]

Yeah. What were some of those big roadblocks or were there any, like, major roadblocks that we had to address in order to keep this moving forward in the right direction?

[0:08:41]

Yeah, the head of technology is very savvy, very tech forward. It probably was. It still is probably one of the more complex but fun, , evaluations that I've gone through where he Came to the table, which is great with all the different Personas that his team had, all the different Personas in his team and their roles and their responsibilities and what they're looking for with the new system. So it was, I wouldn't say as much of an obstacle, but like an opportunity to like, let's really, truly understand each of these different teams and their Persona. There's at least a half dozen of them. What's important to them are their custom objects or custom features and custom workflows that we have to create and do and which ultimately we were able to do. All that your team did a phenomenal job with was just really understanding some of the smaller nuances with each of those different people and what's important to each of those different departments. And again, just ties back into us being able to see all the information and digest it and play it back to them in a really quick timeframe.

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Did they involve all those different departments during the eval or was this led more or less by the head of tech?

[0:09:43]

A few of the different teams, Personas, were involved during the demo. I think Salesforce maybe did some of the legwork, or at least the foundation did a lot of the legwork on the front end where they shared. And those different teams met with Salesforce throughout that, that three, four month period. So we didn't really get to get in the weeds with them individually. We  had the. The post report and review here's what everyone's looking for. So, , maybe honestly, I was almost in favor of us too. We had all the answers to the test. We just needed to deliver. So initially we didn't meet with all those different teams. We did know what they wanted and what were some of the must haves and workflows and processes that they wanted. Then once we got to the demo, there were about a dozen different folks there. That's when we really were able to deliver that message, paint that picture and then answer some of those more technical questions with the broader team involved.

[0:10:32]

Interesting, interesting. How did you position HubSpot? Know this was competitive with Salesforce? How did you position HubSpot as the big better path to achieve what they were looking to accomplish?

[0:10:44]

Everything really ties back to that initial conversation. What's important to you when making these decisions? And that's. Those are the couple things that I tried to learn as quickly as I could on that initial conversation. Right. Because we were behind the eight ball a little bit. We rel the party. So, hey, what is important to you? And I could tell that hey, they didn't want to be fit in any particular box throughout this evaluation. Obviously we still needed to move quickly but what else was important was just being an easy to use platform, being able to grow and continue to scale with them but also still have a lot of that power and robustness to do really whatever they wanted. And again ultimately they did want to do some pretty complex stuff. They wanted to do some pretty complex integrations, all things feasible by HubSpot now and the AA team which is fantastic. So it's just understanding, hey here's where we win. You guys want time to value. This can be a little bit easier to implement. It's not as overly engineered, you don't have to do too much with it. HubSpot's a bit more out of the box the time to value. So we're going to be able to, to get you guys in, in the system much sooner than maybe , another competitor would. So I think it's just those handful of different factors where I think HubSpot wins and I, I've been here for about two years now. I think that's the foothold that I stand on really with any evaluation. I think it's, I firmly believe it. I genuinely believe it. I've seen it happen day over day, week over week where we are winning on some of those more key metrics and key, , reasons why people are making these type of decisions.

[0:12:07]

Were there any key-like resources or strategies that you used to show or demonstrate the time to value advantage that HubSpot has over Salesforce?

[0:12:22]

I also used to work there. Right. So I had some insight into how they do things and how they position themselves and  being at HubSpot I think at that time I was there for six months, really knew our value and really what separated us. So just spoke to a couple of those things like I just mentioned now too where like it's, we're much more easy to stand up, easy to use platform. Everything's in one place. All of our hubs and capabilities are built internally by our team. Right. So that just translates to all that data and information flowing a lot more seamlessly throughout a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) versus tool set that could be a little bit cobbled together and pieced together. So just  really honed in on that messaging and spoke to the time to value the ease of use and being a true all in one platform that could support all these different departments that the foundation needed to have.

[0:13:12]

Through the evaluation that we're very focused on the internal efficiency components, but also the external constituent experience. Was there anything specific from either a demo perspective or something similar that you and the team used to support and show how HubSpot could support that they're really big on.

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On their constituents and sending relevant messaging at the right time. Their big thing was like, how do we turn strangers, maybe who don't know our foundation or don't know who we are, into promoters of our brand and our parks and our arts and our all the different things that we're interested in. During that demo and throughout other discovery calls, you  just really laid out what that looks like. Here's how you'll engage with these constituents or even more on the front end. Here's how you engage with someone who's maybe not as familiar with the foundation, your brand, and how these relevant touch points based on their interest or things that they maybe have looked to in the past, continue to send things that may bring them back to the park or want to bring their family to the park and just continue to elevate the awareness and the excitement for the foundation.

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So understanding you, there were a lot of. You had to, we'll say show and tell, but there was a lot of proving that the system could support their goals. Was there any point during the process where you had to shift strategy in order to keep things moving forward?

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Yeah, I think there wasn't much of a shift in strategy. Like I said, we were. We  came in towards the end, so we were for better or for worse, we were full speed ahead the entire time. So we knew that we had to act quickly, act swiftly, but also act thoughtfully. And like I said, I looped in as many great resources as I could on my end. I think, honestly, it may have been Stephen, our first time working together too, but leverage. My manager is like, hey, who's done really well in the nonprofit space, who's an expert, who's overly technical and who's going to deliver. Right. And we can talk about that too, about what's important to being a great HubSpot partner. I think it's all of those things. Yeah. This being our first opportunity together, I wanted to make sure that we had a partner that could match the speed and the expertise and the technical know-how that we needed to. So I wouldn't say we really needed to shift or pivot too much. It was like, hey, how do we continue to keep our foot on the pedal and deliver value as quickly and effectively as possible?

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I know one of the unique things about this deal when we were working this together was that the POC that was leading the evaluation was a very technical person. While some deals we get the technical win and then it moves forward. This entire sales process was almost the technical one in of itself, which ultimately helped get it across the finish line. But curious about your thoughts on that and your perspective on the actual process and how we approached it.

[0:16:02]

I wouldn't have wanted to, I guess the best way to say it. I wouldn't have wanted any other team partner on this besides that. The two dates you guys delivered and continue to deliver more than I ever could have expected. Like I said, I was relatively newer, about six months, and I had a good idea of maybe some of the more standard and basic use cases. But leveraging a team that had the technical chops and know how and acumen like, like your team does, it made things a lot easier for me. I was able to be more the quarterback of the deal, make sure that all the different pieces were moving forward appropriately and in the right way. We're from a technical expertise standpoint. We had our great SE on this as well too. Then your team did a phenomenal job of really just giving the foundation all the confidence it needed that we could do what they're needing technically from a technical perspective, how we can integrate the different teams within their foundation together, how we could appropriately message their strangers and constituents and promoters to make sure that they're seeing the right information at the right time. So I think the big technical lift was definitely on you guys. And you really flex your muscles on this one, which I'm really happy about because like you said, there. Their  point of contact and champion was very technical. So you guys just did a phenomenal job of really speaking their language. And I see this over and over again. You guys do a really great job of that. Really spoke their language, understood what they needed, and really delivered a flawless demo. And further questions throughout as well too.

[0:17:23]

Were there any key moments that you can think of that helped push this across the line?

[0:17:30]

It's hard to say to continue to beat this drum, but I feel like every time that we had a chance to meet with this team, it had to be a key moment. We had to deliver immense value each time. Obviously, Maybe I'll say my initial call wasn't like a key moment, but I think it helped at least build some credibility and at least some interest that HubSpot could deliver. But then when we did multiple deeper discoveries and demos, your team was also great at just being responsive to emails. The point of contact at the foundation would just have these technical questions and brainstorms in your technical team is that we'll just respond to those quickly and promptly. So I'd say each touch point was a key point. And even for me, too, I just try to consider that I don't take any outreach for granted. I know you guys don't either, too. So you want to make any of those times that you're speaking with a customer or prospect as meaningful as possible. So not to, like, dumb down the question or  offshoot it every time we connected with them, I thought was vital. And we really. We couldn't drop the ball in any of those points, and I don't think we did.

[0:18:32]

Is there a strategy, approach, or component of how we worked with this deal together that you take into other deals moving forward?

[0:18:43]

It's funny, I was just telling my team about this too, because it's the other side's end of quarter this month and they've got other plays against us and we have all our plays against them. But what I was just telling folks, like, at the end of the day, you just need to be a person. You need to be genuine, you need to care, you need to be a good listener. And I think I said this earlier on the show, but that I think is really what helped build a lot of credibility and value. Early on. We weren't trying to force them into a particular box. Here's how you need to evaluate Hubspell. We weren't trying to rush them. We knew the cards were stacked up against us a little bit to start, but I think it was just, hey, what do you really need to feel confident with Hubspell? What do you need to see? What do you need to do? And we'll do it. You know, I think there's always that  give and take of, hey, you want to  educate people and, hey, here's how people evaluate your platform or here's how people typically do this. Right? I think that's also good. It's a little bit of a dance, right? You're going to want to educate, but you also want to listen. And like, they'll. More times than not, people will tell you what they need and what needs to happen for them to move forward. And for us in sales, maybe that timing doesn't always allow when we want it to or we don't initially have the right people involved or interested. And nothing's ever going to perfectly line up. So you  have to take some of those nuggets and think about them carefully and how you really want to proceed the conversation and make sure you're at least continuing to move it forward. So I think we did a really great job with the foundation on that. Here's. We asked those questions, hey, what needs to happen? What do you need to see? What do you need to feel? What is this experience going to be like? I think we  really hit on a lot of those good points pretty well.

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I almost answered my next question, which would be, I think you have really good advice as far as essentially solving for the customer in a very like, unselfish way. Really truly solving for them with no other motives, essentially. And I think that's really good advice for folks that are getting started selling in the ecosystem. But is there anything you'd add to anybody who's new to selling in this environment?

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It's great and it's super fair. We're in sales. There's always going to be timelines that we have to hit. There's  always incentives for us to hit too. We want to bring things in and we want these big deals. But what has made me successful over however many years I've been doing this, which seems like I don't want to date myself too much, was at the beginning of the show. But I think it's just being a friend, being a partner, being consultative. Let me hear what's going on and let me play back maybe some options and some recommendations that I think could fit. And if, if the timing is now or if it's soon, let's talk about what that looks like and what we need to do to make that realistic. You've got to call for the end of the year. Okay, let's work back from that and talk about exactly what needs to happen. Here's what a realistic timeline is. And again, I've got the advantage of being doing this for a while so I could speak to that. And when I talk, it comes off genuine because I know if you wait a couple weeks or you wait a couple months there you. You may miss some deadlines. Your contracts are going to renew and you're going to be double paying for a whole year. So it's just, I think a little bit over time comes with experience. But to your point, Stephen, like, for newer folks, it's to be a good listener. Don't try to put them into your box. Ask questions based on things that they're saying and the conversation will take it where it needs to go. But  you want to have some of your tools and some of the things that you want to check off as well too. I totally agree.

[0:21:57]

This was truly a co-sell from both of our parts and one of the biggest things is communication. So I'm curious from your perspective, how do you manage communication with partners and through this particular deal and what are your thoughts around open comms?

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I think it's critical. I think it's important. And for any seller, obviously everyone at HubSpot, Salesforce, anyone that has to work with an implementation partner, you guys all know, like there's a few things that are really important and aptitude 8, in my opinion, is the best, if not one of the best at it. But it's. You want a team to be technical experts, you want them to understand a variety of different industries. You want them to be honest, you want them to care about your customers. So I think those are all good things. Then to your point too, Stephen, you want to have good communication because again, I've. At HubSpot, we use teams like you guys and you have to be able to ask questions relatively quickly. They may seem a little bit complex, but you guys have always been great at answering questions really quickly. And that's why I really just appreciate what you guys do, your professionalism. You guys handle anyone that I bring to you with the utmost respect and care. And  similar to how I treat prospects and customers, you guys mirror that, , I have, I could ride, , partners or at least have high expectations for partners because again, I know how important of a decision this is for companies and businesses. So. So you guys do a phenomenal job of communicating and being transparent with me and with folks that I bring to you.

[0:23:21]

Any advice for folks who are working or looking to work for partners in their deals?

[0:23:28]

I would say call up after today first. That's your first. That's your first stop? No, but I think it's some of those things that we just talked about. You want to understand. You  do your little bit of homework on them too. Has anyone on your team used them, go on their website, understand, hey, what are some of their areas of expertise? Where do they really play well? And then have those conversations with those people  face to face and ask, like, where do you guys like to play? What's your bread and butter? What's your favorite company size? Or what's your favorite hub that you like to work in? What are some things that I should be on the lookout for? Kind of keep my ears perked up when I hear those things I'll think of you. Right. Because again, you, you want to have confidence with the partners that you're bringing in. Upspot salesforce, a lot of platforms, they're the tool, great tool. But what's really going to make or break a company's experience is the deliverables as the partner that they bring on to configure it, to implement it and to some degree  train that team using it as well too. So I think it's those variety of factors that I think are really what's most important.

[0:24:31]

Any advice you'd give to partners that want to make themselves indispensable?

[0:24:36]

Yeah, I think it's being all those things I talk about that make a good one. Being transparent, being trustworthy, doing right by the customer. Right. And you don't want to be the partner that's over promising and under delivering. Because I don't want to be the sales rep that does that. Because again, I've heard I'm very delicate. When I even introduced the idea of onboarding or setting up HubSpot to somebody. I try to be as thoughtful as I can because again, it's an important decision. So my pitch is like, hey guys, I really only ever recommend 2 or 3 different partners based on the scope of work that's needed, the quality of work that's needed. Because I trust them. I know they do right by my customers. They know they offer fair pricing. And I am also usually pretty flexible with the work that they do. If you want to do something that's great, they're okay with that. Right? They don't. They're not going to be too rigid and put you in a box either. And again, after 2A is always at the top of that list. But I think those are some of the things just to really focus on as a partner. You don't want to go to prom and you have some compassion that, hey, this is a big decision for a lot of companies. A lot of them have been burned in the past or some of them have never done it before. So let's make sure we're giving them as much of a white glove and ideal experience as we can because it could really make or break a business to an extent. You can make their lives a lot harder when in reality we're trying to do that the exact opposite. All right.

[0:25:57]

We've covered a lot. I think we've gotten a lot of good information and insights into this. And so I have to ask the final question. What's one thing about you, personal or Professional that most people wouldn't expect.

[0:26:11]

Yeah. So besides my team, and this is funny because I told folks like before, before January, I never had, like an icebreaker or a fun fact. I don't. I would always maybe lie or say something fun. I did. I've gone to Europe and gone out of the country. That's fine. The cool thing, especially for golfers out there. So I recently moved down to Georgia. Followed by my wife. Fortunately, I get to work from home, but she got a job at Augusta national, which is where they host the Masters. So there are a lot of great perks there. So I was able to go to the Masters all four days this last year, watch Rory win. I've got a lot of clothes now, and I was actually able to play the course. So I had to play a course where all these pros play and  very exclusive. I think I've got. Got the polo on now, so we've got some of the swag on. But, yeah, just a fun little fact about me. Really fell into a lottery ticket with it. But they're a great club, great organization. Were they great people. But yeah, really some great perks for me, too. That  come along with it.

[0:27:07]

Yeah, that's a pretty good perk, I'd say. I'll have to come down and we'll.

[0:27:12]

Have to play the course.

[0:27:13]

I don't know. Yeah, you'll have to go easy on me. I'm not an avid golfer.

[0:27:17]

I'm not good. I'm not good either. But it was. It was fun to play for. Sure. Great experience.

[0:27:21]

That's awesome. All right, Vinny, thanks so much for joining, sharing the story behind this deal. It's always insightful to hear, , how reps like yourself work through the complexity and really create clarity and keep everything moving to drive that success.

[0:27:37]

Thank you, , for having me. That was a ton of fun, so I appreciate it.

[0:27:41]

Yeah. Appreciate everybody tuning in. If you want to connect, I'm Stephen Sabren on LinkedIn. You can learn more about how Aptitude 8 partners with HubSpot. Until next time, keep selling, keep learning, and keep dominating.

[0:27:55]

Thanks for being here.