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Speaker 1: (00:02)
Hello and welcome to Elevate a podcast by Aptitude Aid. Uh, I'm Connor Jeffers, and joining us is somebody that you might consider a little bit of a social media celebrity, uh, at least in and around the Hubu ecosystem. And so today we're really excited to have with us Max Cohen, uh, who is technically a solutions engineer at HubSpot. Uh, by day by night, I hear sometimes by the weekends, uh, and also considers himself to be a TikTok cringe Lord, which if you've been active on LinkedIn, you've likely watched one of his many wonderful videos. Max, thank you so much for Comington hanging out with us today,

Speaker 2: (00:35)
Honor. Thank you, uh, for having me. I've been looking forward to it. And, uh, yeah, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's been a wild ride, this whole fringe Lord thing. So I'm, uh, what

Speaker 1: (00:46)
Does that, what does that mean? I have no idea. That means nothing to me. What read it, it was sent to me. I'll have anyone who's listening. No, that Max specifically told me to mute

Speaker 2: (00:56)
That to put in my LinkedIn title, .

Speaker 1: (00:59)
Is that true? Do you actually have that as your LinkedIn title right now?

Speaker 2: (01:02)
Oh yeah. If you go, if you go look at my LinkedIn, it'll say Solutions engineer at HubSpot bracket CR TikTok cringe. Lord

Speaker 1: (01:11)
Cringe. Lord, define cringe Lord for us. What is this?

Speaker 2: (01:13)
Yeah, yeah. I, you know, uh, I mean, so I would, I, I mean, I, I think some people might find my content a little cringe, right? . Um, I have, I have two daughters right now that I know for a fact are gonna see, they think you're very cr super cringey, uh, when they grow up and start using social media platforms. And they see all this goofy, goofy stuff that Dad was doing about his, uh, about his work so many years ago. Um, so I think I'm just trying to get ahead of that, you know? Um, okay. But the other thing too is like, not a lot of people on TikTok know what I'm talking about, . And so like, I feel like that leads to plenty of cringeworthy moments cuz they're just like, you know, I see this guy trying to do this like trend or this meme or anything, but I have no clue what the subject matter is. So cringe, but on LinkedIn, Hey, that's why it does great on LinkedIn. So that's all I'm all I'm concerned about really.

Speaker 1: (02:07)
Were you, were you doing TikTok? So I only know, I mean, I know, I know you outside of LinkedIn also, but I only know of your, of your TikTok content on LinkedIn, which is, were you doing TikTok stuff unrelated to HubSpot? Unrelated to Rev ops prior and then like how did this, how did this come to be?

Speaker 2: (02:25)
You remember Vine?

Speaker 1: (02:27)
Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: (02:29)
Okay. I was really, really into Vine. Okay. Which is why, so there's an arc here. So I was working at Apple. I wasn't doing like Apple related stuff, but let's just, you know, I was, I was working retail, you know, young. I

Speaker 1: (02:44)
Was out Palo Alto designing iPhones. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (02:46)
Yeah. , I got a funny story about that too. Um, but, you know, so I really loved Vine because the concept I thought was super cool, where originally at least it was like, can you be funny in six seconds or less? Right? Yeah. And the reason I really, really liked that is because the people who were funny on that app were really, really good at comedic timing mm-hmm. , right? Whether it was like a perfectly laid out punchline or a perfectly timed punchline or like a perfectly cut scream, right? Or how people got creative with like, the looping mechanism that was like, still kind of like a fairly new thing for that like medium. I thought that was cool because it was just like, you, you have to be funny, but you, you can only do it under these very specific circumstances. Right, right. And I just, I liked the challenge of it, right.

Speaker 2: (03:42)
So I did, I never like went viral or anything. Not that I've really gone like viral on, on TikTok or anything like that either, but, you know, I did a lot more of like the goofier stuff, um, on Vine. Then Vine died cuz they didn't, they never figured out how to like monetize creators even though like, that's really where like a lot of it really started taking off. Right. But like, they never really were able to figure out the monetization thing. And then, I don't know what happened, like Twitter bottom or someone bought and they went outta business to try to come back, didn't work. But then TikTok literally turned Vine. Yeah. Right. And I think before TikTok was just like a lip, like a lip syncing app for like music or whatever musically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Way back. Yeah. Mean it was musically you're right.

Speaker 2: (04:22)
Yeah. It was, it was cool musically. Um, and then I don't know how, like, I, I think a lot of the people who were on Vine or creators on Vine came over and were just like, this is basically Vine. And then like started creating like the same content they were creating over there. And I think TikTok probably were like, realized that knew it had something and then switched his format up. And I, I came pretty like late into the game. Right. But the reason I started like creating content on there, um, is primarily cuz like I switched roles here. Right. So, um, I'm, I'm a solutions engineer now. Um, if, if you don't know what a solutions engineer at HubSpot, um, basically we get brought on as like strategic partners on deals. So when you have a customer who's evaluating HubSpot and they have, you know, really deep questions around the functionality of the product or really deep questions around how to do integrations and things like that, um, we'll come in and we'll coach reps on how to do their demos we'll, like do certain demos depending on like how complex it is.

Speaker 2: (05:25)
Um, but it's mostly there to like support the reps, um, but also be like advocates for the customers too. So we, we do a lot of different things. We like approve larger deals, all this kind of stuff. We, we do way more than just like, get on calls and demo stuff, which Sure, sure. A lot of people think we do. Right. Um, but you know, me, I like to use it as like a very much like educational role for reps and, and honestly I just try to make it so like they don't need SES in the future. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, try to empower them as much as they can. So I love this job, but before I was a solutions engineer, um, I was a product trainer on the learning and development team. Right? So, um, before that I was doing customer onboarding, but when I was doing onboarding for new hires at HubSpot, excuse me, um, my whole thing was like, I loved like preaching the gospel of inbound, if you will.

Speaker 2: (06:21)
Right. I loved our tools. Like I always say like, HubSpot's my favorite video game. Right. . And so it was a great, it was a great role for me because I got to get everyone who was joining HubSpot that I got to interact with. I got to try to do my best to like pass on a little bit of my energy to them and like get them, try to get them as excited about HubSpot and working here and our product and the inbound methodology as best I could. Right. And it was cool because I was in front of like, anywhere from like, you know, maybe sometimes 20 to 30 to 40 to 50, 60 sometimes 90 new hires in a, in a class. And, you know, I had a, I had an audience, I had people I could, I could talk to. I had a way to leverage my message, right.

Speaker 2: (07:06)
Get it out to all these folks, get them to go, you know, be super excited with customers, things like that. Right. When I left that team, um, and, and joined the, the SE team, I no longer had that outlet. Right. And, um, and every, every, every good comedian needs an audience. Yeah, true. True girls. Just a guy cracking jokes. Yeah. And, but, and so, but that's also when I kind of like discovered TikTok, right. Cause I'm a big scroller, you know what I mean? Like, I, I, I, you know, I consume lots of content. Um, and you know, TikTok was just hilarious to me. Cuz again, it had those like same feelings, same like, you know, immediate stuff you could do that Vine had Right. Had the same, same sort of vibe, if you will. And, um, you know, one day I was just like, all right, like, you know, I don't have my audience a new hires to talk to.

Speaker 2: (07:56)
Like what can I do? Right. And I think I started on TikTok by making like breakfast content. Right. And it was funny cuz I made a couple of videos of me making like burritos or eggs or like whatever. Sure. And one video ended up getting like 250,000 like views and like thousands of likes, which was like super cool. It was, I was putting like way too much butter in like some scrambled eggs or like something like that . And um, that's where I got like a bunch of followers at the beginning and I was like, oh, sweet, this is awesome. But then I was just like, you know, I'm not, I'm not passionate about making like, cooking content. Right. . And then just like one day I was like, I, I, I had seen this trend and it was, um, it's, I can't even remember it. It was like just one where it's like they were like doing this like dance or whatever, like in front of like a bunch of other people.

Speaker 2: (08:47)
And I was like, oh man, it'd be super funny if I did that with, oh, actually no, it wasn't that one. It was a different one. It was, um, the one where someone's like, oh, I need more leads. And then like, marketing hub comes outta nowhere and he's like, oh, I can take you there and blah, blah, blah. I think it was some guy named Newman who's like kind of like not a super cool like creator on there. Like he's kind of a, kinda like a weird dude. Uh, did some like shady stuff. But the, the, the trend itself was like on point for what I was trying to say. Right. And I went to my buddy Vinny, who was like, he's, he's one of our recruiters here. And he, he created a lot of content on, on TikTok about recruiting. And he was cross-posting that to LinkedIn. And I kind of went to him being like asking like, for permission. Yeah. I was like, I was like, do you think I, should I post this? Should I,

Speaker 1: (09:31)
Should I, should I,

Speaker 2: (09:32)
Should I do this? Should I do it? Should it. And he's like, that is so on brand for you. I was like, all right, screw it. Let's, let's do it. And so I posted on there, it got like a ton of, you know, good feedback. People liked it and I think it was cool cause like people aren't used to like seeing that kind of stuff like on LinkedIn. Right. And I've got a whole theory on how LinkedIn has like changed cuz the pandemic, but that's, that's neither here nor there. But it, it took off. And after that I was like, all right, cool. I guess I'm making talks about HubSpot now and just kind of, I was like, so, but it's great because, you know, like I went my whole life without like any sort of creative medium. Right. I spent way too much of my life also like convincing myself that nobody wants to hear what I have to say or I couldn't possibly have correct opinions, uh, or an opinion worth sharing.

Speaker 2: (10:19)
Right. And um, you know, I also turned 33 this this past year and I'm kind of at the point where I'm just like, you know, I just don't care anymore. Like, you know, like I, I'm not gonna live in a world of like self-doubt and stuff like that. And I'm just gonna have my creative outlet. I'm gonna put it out there and if people like it, great. If they don't, whatever, you know. Um, so it's cool. It's, it's a lot of different elements. It's me kind of needing that audience, me wanting to like, you know, get the message out there about HubSpot and inbound me wanting to be like a totally goofy weirdo. Um, and also like I don't have time to edit stuff, you know what I mean? I got two, the short, short photos daughters. Perfect. Exactly. I got two daughters upstairs. Like if I can edit while I shoot and do something silly on a TikTok and like not have to worry about like editing or anything, I don't have time for them. Right. Like, I'm on calls all day, you know what I mean? So like anything where I can do it like something quick, um, and still get content out there like at a pretty consistent clip, you know, it all just kind of worked out. Now we're here. Yeah.

Speaker 1: (11:19)
I mean I think, I think the thing that makes the ob obviously, I mean your content's super relatable cuz I think it's, it's super, anybody who's in and involved in HubSpot, which we'll we'll get to that ecosystem's growing like crazy. There's tons of stuff going on. But I think that mm-hmm. , the piece that's so cool is that you have this great lens, you have a really good technical understanding. You spend a lot of time in front of customers and as a result Yeah. You sort of have this thing. And I think a lot of folks in rev ops and in the HubSpot community resonate with in, in really significant ways. I do you like, is that all because your role is I work, work with HubSpot and I solve problems and and I think that there's funny things in, in those problems.

Speaker 2: (11:58)
Yeah. I mean, and I think a lot, most of it came from when I was um, uh, an implementation specialist back in the day. Cuz you saw everything. Yeah. Right. You saw every, every reason why, you know, a marketing team didn't want to do things in a certain way. You saw every like weird use case that came through. You saw every sort of objection to like putting the work in on certain things. But also, like you saw people do some goofy stuff in HubSpot. And like, the thing is, is in our world of HubSpot and Inbound and this and that or whatever, there is just so much like hilarity just kind of baked in to so many different angles of everything that we do and so much like stuff we can all relate to. Yet there was never really a place for us all to kind of like share that.

Speaker 2: (12:47)
Right. Yeah. Which is I think why it's resonating so hard because like, you know, people can go online like TV and watch like a standup talk about like the relatability of like everyday life, but like where do you go to get that around like a software that you and a bunch of other people use. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't really happen. So like, that's why I think it's like performing so well on LinkedIn, right? Yeah. Like it's related enough to work, but it's different enough from like the usual, usual like you see on there Right. Where it like really kind of stands out and like resonates with people, you know. But yeah, it all comes from like a lot of it's from my onboarding days, um, a lot of it came from me constantly like thinking about it and retrospecting on it during my like days as a trainer. Right. And now it's all I'm getting tossed right back into it as a, as a, as a, um, like being customer facing again as a solutions engineer. So there's always like new experiences that kind of like drive it and inspire it and stuff like that. So. Yeah.

Speaker 1: (13:43)
Yeah. Well I know we, we talked a lot around, uh, TikTok content and LinkedIn and I know that that's, that's something that a lot of people may know about you, but I've, I've had the luxury of being in sales processes or other things with you and I get to see mm-hmm. your solutioning and solutions architecture and some of those pieces. And would love, I think something that I think is really interesting is that this role of solutions engineer, I don't, I don't know how recently HubSpot has that formally, but I think that like the demand for it right now in HubSpot, certainly in the ecosystem as well, is getting immense cuz the platform's getting more complicated, more technical Sure. Problems people are solving is more interesting. Like what mm-hmm. , what do you see as, what is it, what is a solutions engineer trying to do? What are solutions architects trying to do? Like how does that fit into the ecosystem? Sure. And what have you seen from that role?

Speaker 2: (14:31)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, well, I mean I can definitely speak to it like at HubSpot at least, right? So I mean, you know, for us, you, you can't expect like every sales rep to be like an absolute, you know, master within the tool, right? Yeah. Like that, that takes a long time and it's really difficult to like scale up a sales org. Like just assuming everyone's gonna be an expert in the product, right? So especially you're have to find a classes of, of 90 something people, right? Yeah. With like a lot of people, right? And so like you have to find a way to be able to scale product knowledge, right? Um, you know, in, in a way that I think like makes sense and is like tenable for the business, right? Like I'm sure there's a lot of like complex mechanisms of scale behind this that I just like don't understand.

Speaker 2: (15:15)
Right. But I can, I can definitely understand like why they're separate roles, right? Um, you know, a salesperson needs to be really good at selling, like holding people accountable, driving a sales process. Um, you know, they have to have amazing interpersonal skills. They have to be like really, really good at, you know, driving an actual sales process. And I already said that, right? But that's a skillset set alone by itself. Say it twice, right? Exactly. It's super important. Yeah. Say it with your chest . Um, while being like an expert at HubSpot is a whole train on its own too, you know what I mean? So like, it's good to be able to like have those folks that come in like when it's needed, cuz it's not always needed. You don't always need, you know, a deep, uh, uh, expert on like integrations and you know, all the, this functionality of the tool from front to back on every single deal because you know, the tools easy enough, like it usually like sell itself, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2: (16:07)
Um, but like you do need to be able to bring those people in from time to time. Now, solutions architects, there are gonna be those deals that are gonna require like a lot more like dedicated bandwidth, especially when you're talking about like the upmarket motion. And I'm, I'm definitely not gonna do this like team justice at all, like explaining it here, but like we have engineers and we have architects. The definition of those at other companies I've seen is completely different, right? Like everyone, like everyone has the idea of like a sales engineer, right? But I think different companies have said solutions architects, solutions engineer, sometimes the same thing. Sometimes it's different, sometimes it's pre-sales, sometimes it's post-sales, right? In our case it's all, it's all pre-sales, right? But typically like much higher r r way more complex, way more seats and like sales and service, right?

Speaker 2: (16:57)
Those really, really big enterprise deals you generally see solutions architects work on and they work less deals at a time because they're way, way, way more deeply involved in like, a lot of these bigger deals, right? So, you know, a lot of the conversations you're having are different, but it's a much grander scale, right? And it requires a lot more like dedicated work. Whereas like me as a solutions engineer, right? Um, the deals are typically, I I work in mid-market, right? So like, you know, they're not infinitely complex like, you know, some of the bigger enterprise ones are. So, you know, the way that I touch a deal could be like, Hey, you know, I'm either like giving you some like, you know, maybe the rep just has some questions for me, right? And I'm answering 'em, and then they're, they're good to go. They can kind of take that information, run with it.

Speaker 2: (17:46)
Maybe they need me to join on a demo just so like they have someone to fall back on. If any technical questions come up, maybe they need me to help, like formulate an integration. It's usually like, you know, pretty quick and doesn't involve like a ton of my time. But then the architects, they're doing a lot more work on these deals than I am. Right? Cuz they're much bigger, they're much more skilled up, more people involved, they expect a lot more from them, right? So it's a little different. I haven't been a solutions architect at HubSpot or if I've been an engineer like anywhere else. So it's like hard for me to, I think like, comment on the, the best way of doing things and I'm, I'm probably not again, doing their role justice, but you know, it has, it's like different levels here at HubSpot depending on how big the, the, the rollout is, right? And like how complex, you know, everything is too. Um, yeah. I'd say in the ecosystem of like HubSpot though in general and you think of like solutions architects, I mean that starts to get me wait for

Speaker 1: (18:43)
One second just ahead. Just before we go into that piece of it. And I think like when you say ecosystem, I was going to, I was gonna take you there a little bit. Like what is, what is that? Like, what is that? If anyone's listening to this, hopefully you're like, oh yeah, I know HubSpot, I know you guys, I know the HubSpot ecosystem. Yeah. But like, what's the breadth of that? Cuz I think that in the LA like since you've been at HubSpot, that's gotten bigger and changed also. Whew.

Speaker 2: (19:03)
Yeah. Yeah. So, so like when I think of like the ecosystem at HubSpot, um, I almost like, I almost like try not to call it ecosystem just because like we have like our app ecosystem and we use that word for like, to talk about that. I almost like to think of it as like the HubSpot like universe that we've kind of created, you know what I mean? Because there's like, you know, if, if you kind of break it down, you've got, you've got HubSpot, the software, you've got inbound, the strategy, those two things help each other out, right? The strategy is built to deploy the, the, the, the, sorry, the software is built to deploy the strategy. The strategy is, you know, best deployed by the software, so on and so forth, right? So there's that piece. Then you've got the customers that are using it, you've got us the company that's selling it, and then you also have our partners who are helping us scale this, right?

Speaker 2: (19:59)
And like make sure our, our customers are, are succeeding with HubSpot, right? And then now you've got things like integrations and you're starting to evolve all these other companies that like, you know, wanna be able to send da data in and outta HubSpot and all this stuff. And then now you also got apps being built on top of HubSpot, right? So when I think about like the ecosystem, I'm thinking of like all of these things kind of like combined into one and like this universe, right? That's been created because of this wonderful thing called HubSpot. Right? And, um, I know there's like sort of two places we can go in this conversation. We've got like two very separate parts to talk about. Um, one being like,

Speaker 1: (20:41)
I wanted you to define that before you jumped into sort of like how you see it fitting Oh yeah. Into the, the ecosystem. Because I know like we throw that word around all the time. Uh, and I think that the, the breadth of it, right? I think that that like there's that id c white paper that's like, oh, there's the 18 billion ecosystem opportunity. And like what does that mean? Uh, and I think you've just encapsulated it really, really well.

Speaker 2: (21:01)
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I don't know. So like where do you want to go from here? Right? Because like we've been talking about apps, right? Yeah. Which I think is a really, really exciting piece of it. But then I think also just like, you know, on being on TikTok, I hear a lot of people talking about like breaking into tech. Yeah. Right? In this whole concept of like, hey, you know, first generation tech getting a job at tech. I'm sitting here just like, yo know, break into the HubSpot universe, like forget tech by itself. Like even in just like our sphere there is like so much so like we can, we can take it whatever direction you want, where you wanna start. Yeah.

Speaker 1: (21:33)
I mean, what I think what what excites you the most I think we can talk about, let's see. But we'll, we'll, we'll give you massive, let's talk about the playbook. You don't, you don't come from a tech background, like from a traditional tech background. So like your, your journey in here is super interesting, but like where, what excites you about the future of where this is going? Uh, and then we'll talk about like Yeah. I dunno how other people can get into it.

Speaker 2: (21:54)
Yeah, yeah. Totally. So I I I think there's, there's, there's two big things I definitely wanna like really, really pick your brain on, right? Sure. Is the idea of like how the app marketplace is kind of evolving, right? And Yeah. And, and I love talking to you about it because you guys are doing a whole lot of, of like what I kind of see as like the future of, of the app store. Like, and just kind of from what I've seen, right? You know, cuz there's this this concept of like, all right, when we think about the app store immediately, and I think a lot of hubs, spotters are still this way too. They think of the App store as having integrations to other existing pieces of software, right? But what comes to a surprise, I think to a lot of folks, and this is hubs, spotters, this is customers, this is partners, this is, this is everybody, right?

Speaker 2: (22:42)
This is not like there's a, I don't think there's like a failure here for anyone to like not understand it, right? Is that there's also this concept of building apps on HubSpot that aren't apps that are just existing out in the standalone world, right? Yeah. So like just apps that are living, breathing, functioning, and running off of the data you already have in HubSpot and add value to what you're doing in HubSpot, right? So I love what you guys are doing because you look at like, a lot of the different apps that you've built. It's not like this is like some tool that you can use without using HubSpot. You're identifying either like a gap in the HubSpot service offering or finding new and unique ways to accomplish certain things in HubSpot, you're listening to our customers and then like you're building it in, right?

Speaker 2: (23:38)
You're saying like, Hey, if it doesn't exist, we're gonna make it exist. Right? And like, I kind of think of like, the way, way that I kind of think about that. And I know I heard someone talking about this a while ago. I need to like remember who it is because they, they really kind of made this whole thing make sense for me is it's almost like HubSpot is your iPhone for your business. Yeah. And it comes with a bunch of apps on it already, just like your phone does, but then developers can like build other apps on that phone that use that phone's data to do stuff. Right. And like, that's kind of the real exciting thing to me because if you look at the iPhone, the reason the iPhone was as successful as it was is because of the App store, right? Yeah. And like HubSpot's app marketplace is like on the cusp of like doing that same thing, right? Yeah. We're I, I a lot of these, these developers get to this idea. Yeah, go

Speaker 1: (24:34)
Ahead. I'm literally Googling like, what are the, what are the original apps that were on? I now it's an iOS elevens. I don't even know if any of the, of all of these are og, but like the original app, the original iPhone had like a calculator app and a calendar app and a camera app and a clock app. And I don't think, I don't know someone who's like a a, a Steve Jobs historian is gonna go like bash me over the head if I get this wrong. But I don't think on the first day the iPhone launched, the app store existed. Like, I think that that launched later. And I think, yeah, if we think about where HubSpot's at right now, I think the app store is like just starting to come online and we run into, so for, for anybody here, we have, we have apps today.

Speaker 1: (25:11)
Our, our core services business, we have another arm, our business called a eight Labs where we're building products, uh, on HubSpot. So we have, we have Clone Attack, which is one click cloning, or you can clone records via workflow. So you can do something like when Deal is closed, one, create another deal, clone it, move all the line items, put it in your renewal pipeline. Um, we have associate, uh, which is like v lookup style stuff. Um, really helpful. One of the cool things, you'll, you'll get a kick outta this. One of the cool things you associate is like if you import flat files, uh, you can without, so like importing a associations is really hard, but associate, you can auto link all those records just like with a workflow, which is super cool. Uh, and we have some other ones and, and we have some cool stuff coming up.

Speaker 1: (25:50)
But I, I think that what we're really excited about is I think that the App store, I think that comparison's really apt and like that has just started to exist. And if, uh, one of the, we're watching, um, the Dropout right now, which is all about like Theranos, but there's this whole thing where like the Walgreens executives go to Palo Alto and they're like these app companies. Like there's, like, Twitter is an app company and they have like all these things. And I think that we're at the very beginning where I really think that there will be, uh, very large successful businesses that are HubSpot apps and that's what they are. Yeah. And like that's their business. Yeah. And they are not some separate commission application that has an integration to HubSpot mm-hmm. , but they're like Timer man, which, uh, we're launching this week, which is SLA management and HubSpot.

Speaker 1: (26:36)
So if you're using Yeah. Service Hub and you wanna say, I have specific rules about how quickly respond to customers, how long tickets can sit in statuses. I have different rules by region or customer type. You can build and manage that. And that app isn't outside of HubSpot and connecting to it, it's all on HubSpot. Like you can't use it. Yeah. Unless you're a HubSpot customer. And I think that, like when we think about some of the app stuff, I think we're at the very beginning of that curve and we're just starting to work with Lot. HubSpots done an amazing job and hired people who are like, that's what they're focused on. They're building tools for that. Uh, yeah. And that's really exciting. And I think for us it was, it's, it's a natural extension from services, but I think that, I don't know, I mean, I think the future of HubSpot is gonna be, Hey, you have HubSpot plus these three or four apps that you're gonna install in order to make, solve the property you're trying to solve. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (27:26)
Yeah. And like the other thing too, it's like if you're an agency owner and you're looking for the next way to like expand your, your HubSpot partner agency, Hey, you can become a SaaS company pretty quick, right? Yeah. Like you, you already know the ins and outs that product, you probably have some ideas of how to make it better. Well, did you know that you could just turn that into an app? I mean, I know it's way more complicated than that , but the opportunity sits there for you to say, Hey, HubSpot doesn't do this, or I can think of a better way to do something, build it and sell it and just have it run on HubSpot. You don't have to create like, you know, a whole separate software. Right. Um, you know, it can, it can just be something that lives on HubSpot and it can, you know, like that can be another, uh, source of revenue for you or like, whatever, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: (28:17)
Like, I'm not the Yeah. I'm not the chief business builder over here. Right? So I'm sure it's more complicated than I'm making it sound. But like, this is a very, very exciting new opportunity for partners trying to figure out, hey, where else can we like, develop different sources of revenue, but also like stay within the subject matter and the area that we like to play in. You know what I mean? Um, so I think like that's, that's like super exciting to me. You know? Um, there's, there's just so much good da like, you know what I'm waiting for, who's gonna build the e R P system that's built for HubSpot? Right.

Speaker 1: (28:50)
I think we're, I think we're early on that one. I think it's gonna happen though. . Like, there's no question. I mean, I think that like the, I I think, I think we're already seeing this with HubSpot as we're not a marketing solution. We're a C R M platform. And that means that in platform I think is, I know it's very intentional there, but that you can build all this really amazing stuff on top and the functionality set and the feature set that's there is less of, here's a tool that solves your sales problem or your marketing problem, and here's a whole bunch of functionality that you can build whatever type of solution you want on. And that can be one off for your company or for one client or sort of wherever you sit in that interaction. Or it can be something that is reusable and repurposable and can be deployed into other parts of the ecosystem. And, and I think that there's a lot of opportunity there, for sure.

Speaker 2: (29:35)
Yeah. So I think that stuff's super cool and that's why I always love talking to you guys because like as you're, you're building a whole, you know, business around this idea of like, you know, building apps and, and making HubSpot better and, and solving like, you know, all these different problems. So I just think that's super cool. The other side of it though, um, not to like, just dramatically shift.

Speaker 1: (29:57)
Um, no, I, I think, I think it's a good shift. I think it makes total friends. It's like, here's the opportunity in the HubSpot ecosystem and not enough people are capturing it. Yeah. Also means like, how exciting is it to be in the HubSpot ecosystem and it is and how much of an opportunity is that for everybody else?

Speaker 2: (30:12)
Yeah. Yeah. And like, so, and okay, so and these, these are like the, the, this is kind of, again, and I, I see a lot of this, like on TikTok, I see like a lot of people talking about like all these different ways to like, break into tech or people saying like, oh, I don't want to work in tech cuz I'm gonna have to go back to school and like, you know, all these like wild things. And you know, I look around and I see like, and again, like, I don't think HubSpot's unique in this. I think like I think we do it very well, right? But you know, the, the, the fact of the matter is it's like there's, there's plenty of like resources out there for you to like break into tech that are free. You know what I mean? And I always love highlighting HubSpot Academy as like one of those examples, right?

Speaker 2: (30:57)
Like, you don't have to go back to school to learn about inbound marketing. You don't have to go to school to learn about software platforms. Like a lot of that stuff is just available to you either like through the software vendor itself, right? We do it through HubSpot Academy. Like you can go and get certified and using, you know, almost every single product that we have, you can learn a ton about the strategy that's like related to the stuff that we talk about and it's not gonna cost you a dime. Right? And that gives you all this like, knowledge that you can take and go potentially find employment in this universe. And what's wonderful about it is that not only is like HubSpot hiring all the time, right? And we always have like roles open here, but you gotta remember we have this like vast partner network Yeah.

Speaker 2: (31:47)
That is also scaling with us, right? So not only we are we adding more and more partners, those partners are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Especially if like you're participating in like partner led onboarding or you're just trying to bring on more business. Like they're constantly looking for people who know HubSpot and oh by the way, there's free ways for you to learn that stuff without feeling like you have to go back to school and completely, you know, rethink the way you educated yourself for your career. All that stuff is just available to you if you have a, an internet connection. Yeah. Right? And then, oh, on top of that, all the customers that are buying a HubSpot that are eventually, they don't

Speaker 1: (32:29)
Wanna hire people,

Speaker 2: (32:29)
Hire people that

Speaker 1: (32:30)
No hub. Yeah. They can't, they can't. No one can get it fast enough. I totally, exactly. I totally agree with you. I mean, I know we're, we're always hiring. We have, so this is something that like, I don't even know if you and I have talked about this, but like we're really passionate about a lot of this and career development and being able to create those opportunities for people. But like we have, uh, I know of at least five people on our team. So like our, we're 35 right now, uh, no college degree, no background. Uh, we have a junior consultant on our team. We hired as an associate. He's 21. Uh, he's not in an entry level job, he's 21 years old. He's running client projects like he knows HubSpot inside now he's on our web op team and Yep. Those types of opportunities I think exist here. And to your point, like going back to school would not help you get that job. Like you would No, it will not give you any skills that we would go and hire for. And what we're looking for is go learn and use HubSpot and to your point, you can do and access that for free.

Speaker 2: (33:25)
Yeah. Yeah. Right. And again, customers that buy it wanna hire people that know how to use it. Right. Especially now that we're starting to enter in the, into this, you know, big discussion around the ideas of like the HubSpot admin and, and all that kind of stuff, which is a, which is a very interesting conversation I think just because, you know, I've been used in line for years of saying there's a reason there isn't a lot of people with the job title HubSpot admin, if you catch my drift. Right. You know what I mean? And, and now I'm not gonna be able to use that line now

Speaker 1: (33:55)
That now that's changing cuz you're like, there's actually, there's so many people who need that job title though,

Speaker 2: (33:59)
. Yeah. But it's a good change and I think that's like a great byproduct of the direction that HubSpot's going in, right? That it can do so much that you would need, you know, a person just dedicated for it, which is great. It's not like a hindrance, you know what I mean? Yeah. But also at the same time, it still can be run by the people who are just using it as well. Right. So, you know, it's, it's, I think it speaks to the flexibility and the, the way that HubSpot grows with you. Right. Um, but again, like I think like my big message around this stuff, right? Is like, I get that a lot of people love the idea of like breaking into tech, but I think there's a more focused way to do that. And I think this beautiful HubSpot universe is like something that people should explore is there is a lot of opportunity here, whether you are a web designer, uh, uh, you know, a, uh, a freelance like marketer, you know, someone who considers themselves just like a social media manager, something, there is so many resources that you can just go and really kind of take it from zero to 10 in terms of like your HubSpot knowledge and then HubSpot's hiring partners are hiring, customers are hiring, you can do work on Fiver, you could be a freelancer, you could start your own business, right?

Speaker 2: (35:14)
You could start your own agency. Like, yep. There's all these avenues in this ever expanding like universe that's getting just propelled, you know, or not propelled just ever expanding because of like, you know how HubSpot has been successful, right? Yeah. So if you're listening to this checkout HubSpot Academy, go on YouTube, like there's so many ways that you can learn this stuff, stuff. You don't have to go back to school. You can if you want to. Right. But you know, there there are, there are other ways that you can educate yourself, right? You know, I always tell myself like, I got my MBA before I was working at Apple, but my two and a half years that I was an implementation specialist, I learned 10 times more about how businesses operate than any time that I spent in school. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1: (35:58)
Like, I totally agree. I think nothing beats experience and I also think that like getting that experience is far more accessible than anyone realizes. And Sure. I think if you can find, I know, I know the HubSpot partner communities hiring like crazy. I know HubSpots hiring and crazy. I know customers are hiring like crazy because they can't find anybody to help them come and build this stuff. And I think the, the bar is low and I actually think as, as Hubot gets more complex, the bar doesn't get higher, the bar actually gets lower. Like over time what happens is the demand for that knowledge gets so high that the comp requirements go up, the roles go up, that solutions architects become a thing that people need. And like hubs, spa admins become a thing. And I think that if you are interested in a lot of these things, get exposure to the product, get exposure to the software, and y you will be, become incredibly employable very, very quickly.

Speaker 2: (36:52)
the wonderful world, world to be a part of. Like totally. You know, the, whether you are already in it or, or you're on the outside looking in, like there is a ton of like really cool opportunity. Um, you know, like, and again, even, even for folks that have like, like been around in it too, like the, the, the opportunity that you have, whether it's building apps or starting an agency or you know, whatever, just like with the way that it's scaling, you know, there's always gonna be one way for you to make a living inside of the, in, inside of the orange, the orange, you know, uh, orange Universe, orange Way or whatever, orange Universe. Yeah. Whatever you wanna call it. Cool. Amen.

Speaker 1: (37:28)
Well, max, thank you for entertaining all of us in the Orange Universe. Uh, yeah. If you don't follow Max on LinkedIn or TikTok, I recommend you do. So it's a great time. Uh, yeah. And thank you so much for joining us. I know I just, I put this out there, but if people wanna follow you online, is it, is it LinkedIn, is it TikTok? Where's the best place to find Max Co in content? So,

Speaker 2: (37:49)
So TikTok will have all of my stuff, including the stuff that's too spicy to come over to LinkedIn. Ooh. Um, LinkedIn is where most of the, uh, because like I'll still do some like, just goofy, not HubSpot related stuff. Like I did, I did a wicked funny one with, with my one year old the other day, which was great. Um, but yeah, follow me on TikTok. It's just at official Max Cohen, uh, on TikTok and then just find me on LinkedIn, just Max Cohen search me, connect with me, ask me questions, whatever you want. I'm here for you.

Speaker 1: (38:19)
Sounds awesome. Well thank you so much for joining us Max. Uh, for anyone listening, thank you for coming apart. Uh, check out Max, he has amazing content. Uh, you can find us@abate.com for this episode and a whole bunch of other ones. And, uh, thank you so much.

Speaker 2: (38:34)
Awesome. Thanks Connor.